The COMPLY Podcast showcases trailblazers in the financial services and compliance space. Each episode dives deep into the challenges, triumphs, and innovations of executives at top banks, fintechs, and enterprises.
In this episode, I’m joined by Ryan De Herrera, Senior Marketing Compliance Manager at University of Phoenix, whose experience spans compliance roles at companies like Bank of America and loanDepot. Through his experience, he’s become an expert in balancing marketing and compliance, ensuring advertising is both compelling and compliant.
We discuss:
- How compliance should be a collaborative effort that helps businesses manage risks and achieve goals
- The importance of continuous learning and consumer feedback in building an adaptable compliance program
- The role of compliance in setting expectations, reducing complaints, and fostering long-term consumer trust
- How shifting regulatory priorities will shape compliance, with consumer protection always driving the process
Show Notes:
- Be a guest on the COMPLY Podcast: https://comply.performline.com/comply-content-speaker-interest
- Connect with Ryan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-de-herrera-1310834b/
- Connect with Rhonda: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rhonda-mcgill/
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About COMPLY: The Marketing Compliance Podcast
The state of marketing compliance and regulation is evolving faster than ever, especially for those in the consumer finance space. On the COMPLY Podcast, we sit down with the biggest names in marketing, compliance, regulations, and innovation as they share their playbooks to help you take your compliance practice to the next level.
Episode Transcript:
Rhonda:
Hey there COMPLY Podcast listeners and welcome to this week’s episode. In this episode, I sit down with Ryan De Herrera, whose experience spans compliance roles at companies like Bank of America and loanDepot, and who is currently the Senior Marketing Compliance Manager at University of Phoenix. We talked about how compliance should be a collaborative effort, the importance of adaptability and consumer trust, and how evolving regulations will continue to shape the industry. Thanks for listening, and enjoy!
Rhonda:
Hello everyone, and welcome to this week’s episode of our podcast. I am very happy to introduce this week’s guest, Ryan De Herrera, who is the Senior Manager of Marketing Compliance at the University of Phoenix. Looking at Ryan’s bio, I felt like we were kindred spirits, and I’m really excited for us to have this conversation about his journey into compliance and some of the things that he’d like to hit on as it applies to his feelings around all things marketing compliance.
Welcome, Ryan. I hope I did not butcher your last name, I did the best that I could.
Ryan:
Thank you very much, Rhonda. No, you did a great job with my last name. I do go by De Herrera, which is a very Americanized pronunciation of my last name. It is by no means a disgrace or a slight to my Latin heritage. It is just that it’s a lot more comfortable for those individuals who need to engage me in their native tongue.
Rhonda:
Although I have transplanted to Michigan, I always try to do it the right way when I see those last names. Ryan, would you introduce yourself and tell our podcast guests about you and your path to compliance?
Ryan:
Yes. Thank you very much. So again, my name is Ryan de Herrera; honestly, my pathway to compliance started with a lifetime of being in sales and marketing across multiple industries. I was in telecommunications. I did standard marketing with haircutting.
I used to work with engineers. And then, eventually, I ended up in mortgages. Through that process, I learned the dos and don’ts of engaging with customers. And it really broadened my perspective on the way businesses then need to work with other businesses and then the individuals themselves as far as your consumers.
That developed my appetite for compliance. I’m a stickler for rules. So it was identified by one of my managers that maybe I’d be really inclined to. Be in the compliance field. An opportunity presented itself, and I was able to get in. And the rest is kind of history.
I’ve been doing. Standard compliance of mortgages—TILA, RESPA—and about 10 years ago, I moved into marketing compliance with an emphasis on UDAAP and things like that.
Rhonda:
So, what compels you to do the work that you do?
Ryan:
For me, it comes down to the honesty and integrity of reaching people and really level-setting expectations.
I think compliance, in my opinion, which is, of course, biased, is that its level sets a lot of things. If you look at the way mortgage companies operated in the last 50 years, there were a lot of regulations that had come out because you had major players able to dominate the market.
Certain rates and you had smaller players may not be as transparent as they could have been with the way they presented things or the way they treated individuals to maximize the profits, and compliance level sets that. I also think that having a fair set of rules benefits the consumer the most.
So, that’s what really drives me in the compliance field.
Rhonda:
I love that. I love that. And I think that most people who are in that compliance space have that dedication to consumer protection, and it’s just a natural extension of who those individuals are.
With that said, I know that we’re always in the weird uncertainties of what’s happening in the world, but what would you say are some of the biggest challenges that you feel a compliance professional may face?
And I always like to talk across the board, not just someone who has been in the game for a long time, but someone who’s maybe new to compliance versus those that are a little bit older, or are there, are they in the same, all in the same boat?
Ryan:
Yeah. I would say that the biggest challenge that compliance professionals face is bad branding.
Compliance has had a longstanding reputation for slowing down business, and it’s less a perception of slowing down to avoid obstacles rather than just trying to stop the business. And I think that podcasts like this are good for engaging individuals out there, and putting it out there is what we’re trying to accomplish. It really highlights what can be done, but there’s a perception that it’s us vs them— compliance versus sales, or compliance versus this. It’s not. It’s a collaboration. I think that we need to break down that perception to make it so that we’re working together.
You can’t drive your car straight forward, full steam. You have to apply brakes and use the steering wheel to avoid obstacles. Compliance to me is those controls, the brakes, and the steering wheel. And if anyone has a challenge that they can get away with without driving with those controls in place, please don’t.
Rhonda:
Exactly. I was looking at your bio, and you said something that really hit me: too much legal training only sees the risks, and too much marketing only sees the restrictions. And I think that spoke multiple values about how compliance is just figuring out that balance in between, how do we, yes, we have to follow the law, but how can we do the make, achieve the goals that marketing really wants to do in order to get the word out there and to sell our product or to, whatever it is so though that’s something that really stuck out to me.
Ryan:
Yeah, I mean, for me, it’s always been, what are the rules? For example, when coloring, you color to the line; you don’t want to go over the line. And compliance is, really, the reinforcement of where that line is. Yeah. Legal is there to help insulate the company if it ever crosses the line.
But having a good understanding of the way your company works by the way your clientele engages. Your company is gonna tell you where that line is. Really understand the regulations, how you can talk to them, what you can talk about, and really level set those expectations. That’s always been a big thing with me.
Where if a person understands what they’re getting into, they’re gonna be less likely to complain, they’re gonna be less likely to raise an objection to the business later on, right? You can sell anything with the right expectations. I’ve sold mediocre products, and I said, this one’s mediocre.
You could spend more on a better one. They’re like, okay, you warned me. They come back. Yeah, you were right. I should have known better. They’re not mad at me. They’re not mad at the product. They’re medically responsible for deciding to settle and then having to make that decision. And that’s okay.
There’s nothing wrong with that part. It’s the deception that makes it really risky. And then, that’s where compliance really helps come in and really hold people’s hands as they try to dial it back to where it should be.
Rhonda:
Exactly. Exactly. And so, with that said, what would be your biggest piece of advice for a successful compliance program?
Speaking to the program as a whole is one thing; we definitely look at the people, but your program has to have some levels of boundaries and integrity. What is your advice for someone who’s building out a solid program?
Ryan:
I would say never stop learning and never stop listening.
There’s always feedback on what you do in the market. Listen to your happy customers. Listen to your unhappy ones the most. They’re going to give you the best understanding of where you stand. And it’s really the consumer side, in my opinion, that drives compliance. There’s litigation, there’s other things that lawyers deal with from a compliance perspective.
It’s really the consumer that we need to protect and really engage. So, as long as you never stop listening, learning, understanding what’s next, and listening to their needs, you’re always gonna be in place to service those needs and continue your business. It’s when you feel like you’ve done.
And you stand by that traditional mantra of this, which is always how we’ve done things, which is probably the worst thing someone can say about their business.
You have to be willing to grow from that. So, I would say that my biggest piece of advice is to just really keep going, keep learning, and keep the conversation rolling.
Rhonda:
Yeah. Always be willing to retool; it doesn’t have to be the way it always has been.
I hate it when people say, ‘We’ve always done it that way.’ Sometimes, you don’t need to do it that way. You gotta grow and evolve from that.
Ryan:
And I’ve heard that before, though. That’s just how we’ve done it. Or, to me, what’s almost worse is that’s how it does it.
Rhonda:
Yeah.
Ryan:
That should tell you that they’re, everyone’s struggling to figure out their place in the world, whether it’s individual or business.
Modeling yourself after someone blindly without understanding the things that led up to those decisions.
Rhonda:
Yeah.
Ryan:
Or going with tradition, which, again, is a very similar thing like, oh, that’s how we’ve done it. So we’re always gonna that forces a, a set of blinders on efficiency. We live in a world where technology moves incredibly fast.
Where the way we engage individuals has changed tremendously over the last five years. Let alone the last 50. With the advancements of technology and everything like that, just to stick your head in the sand and say, that’s what these people do, or This is what we’ve always done. Is doing your company a disservice and doing yourself a disservice?
Is that your personal philosophy? Own 2 cents, though.
Rhonda:
No, I get it; I agree with you. Your 2 cents are definitely valuable. 2 cents. So, definitely, thank you for sharing that. With that said, what are some of the tools, whether it’s software or otherwise, that you feel are the most important thing for your work, and how do you know how you achieve the things that you do on a daily basis?
Ryan:
So the way I engage tools, whether it’s software or anything, really comes down to interacting with the people themselves. Anything that allows for collaboration and communication is gonna be paramount for any successful business. Yeah. You can’t have the smartest person in the room who has a great idea with no one else in that room or a means to communicate that idea to anyone else.
So anything that breaks down silos, anything that allows for ideas to flourish and, hopefully, enough anonymity where ego isn’t a part of it, where not everyone’s looking for a carrot, right? It’s a collaboration of that. That, to me, is a great tool. Something where it’s a stew where everyone’s ideas gonna come together.
I think that’s a stronger way to engage, and regardless of the technology platform a person chooses, it really should allow for that. Conversely, I think that having all the tools in the world without anyone knowing how to use the tools is the same as having no tools at all. So if you’re going to have something you pay for, whether it’s a technology, a software, a platform, a service, a vendor—if you don’t know what they’re doing, you don’t know how they’re doing it, you’re just spending money to spend money, and you’re doing yourself a disservice because you don’t know the controls in place to make it worth your while. You don’t know what you don’t know in that regard.
So, I would say for any tools out there or any platform, please have at least one or two people dedicated to really understanding what that means and how it works. I think that a lot of companies lose sight of that detail.
Rhonda:
So true. And that is, it can only work as well as you work it; I do appreciate that.
As I started, we are in those weird, uncertain times with so much change. Whether it’s at the federal level or state level, there’s always something happening in the regulatory space. What do you see as the biggest challenges or the biggest changes or trends that you’re predicting over the next six months or so?
Ryan:
It seems, the news cycle is gonna be, I don’t know what to expect in the next six minutes.
Rhonda:
I know, right? I’ve said that, too. Every time I look at that question, I’m like it changes by the hour.
Ryan: It so does and what I’ll say is this: there is a great deal of unpredictability in the way that the political, and I don’t wanna get into the political side of it.
Not at all. Yeah. Administrations and government entities interact. Sometimes, they’re very engaging; sometimes, they’re not engaging. There’s always going to be groups out there for consumer advocacy, whether it’s class action, civil, or whatever the case is. So the thing I predict for the next six months is people are going to still have these needs, and they’re going to shift.
If it’s not gonna be supported by your major federal or state governments, then it’s gonna be handled by law firms. But the protection and the noise are going to be there from consumers feeling that they’ve been slighted. Yeah. So I guess my advice for anyone listening, and I hope it’s okay, advice is don’t get complacent because you hear something in the news cycle or you think that this is gonna happen because of the need for consumer protection.
It is always gonna be present because protecting your consumers is protecting what makes your company. Yeah. So that would be, I guess my prediction is, it’s not gonna go away, and it’s gonna just, the noise is just going to shift it to a different place.
Rhonda:
Exactly. It’s just that always tell people it’s just doing the right thing.
You don’t stop doing the right thing. Exactly. For sure. As we are wrapping up, I definitely want to give you the floor if there are other things that you’re working on, but we always ask our guests what are some of your superpowers? Now I see some guitars behind you, but I’m assuming there’s some music in your life, but what would you say are your your superpowers?
Ryan:
I do my best to stay humble. I am an avid musician, and I do perform. The superpower I’ve really come to engage with is my acknowledgment that I’m actually very average, and I view myself. It has taken a lot of humility to reduce my hubris, but I’m an average person. When I do something, I experience it.
Now I’ve leveraged this to say, if I don’t understand it, the next person’s not gonna understand it.
Rhonda:
Yeah.
Ryan:
And if I apply that to everyone as a superpower, where we quit identifying ourselves as, oh, I’m so smart, rather than I’m so average, then it really opens the communication. I know that’s a silly thing to say as far as a superpower is saying I’m an average man, but I think it really helps keep me grounded and gives me the best opportunity to listen and learn from other people.
Rhonda:
That is a superpower, for sure. And I think if we had more of that, we would be in a much better place when it comes down to how we are engaging across business and how we’re engaging from a compliance standpoint; I think that being average is okay, so that is a superpower.
Ryan:
Being average is wonderful, and the math joke is, you’re average, you’re mean, and it’s the same thing. But no, and you point out the instruments. I do perform. I am a performer. I’m a bass player because my role is support. I’m also a sound engineer, and I’ve seen a lot of people really strive to be the best.
I’m very competitive in that way. But the best band is the best-sounding, well-mixed band that makes everyone happy. It’s not the single person who’s standing out above everyone; look how great I am. Don’t listen to these other guys. It’s the collaboration that people go and see. The reason we listen to the music we like is because it is a combination of so many things.
And I know that’s a little off-topic regarding compliance, but it. Screens the same ecosystem where it’s like there has to be a balance of what we do to really fully understand the message we put out there, the business we put out there that really transcends the product itself to be the identity of what you know, where business and consumers mute.
Rhonda:
I love that. Love that. Ryan, thank you so much for taking time outta your busy day to join us here for our podcast. I think that every time I speak with a guest, we get some new nuggets from it, but I definitely do. Really enjoyed our conversation. I think that our listeners are going to really enjoy hearing some of the things that you’re sharing because you did hit home: it’s okay to be average.
That’s a superpower. And there are so many things that are so much larger than us that if we just dial back a little bit, we can do great things together. So, thank you again for taking time out of your schedule. You are always welcome to join us. So we will be sure to stay in touch with us.
Ryan:
Yes. Thank you for hosting me. Thank you, PerformLine, for having this as a platform. It is really refreshing to meet other people who understand the marketing compliance space. It is something that is a bit of an anomaly for a lot of people, and it’s a disservice to a lot of people that it is so obscure.
So, I really want to thank you, Rhonda, and PerformLine for putting this out there and allowing this industry to see what we can do.
Rhonda:
I appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Ryan:
Alright. Thank you so much.
Rhonda:
Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of the COMPLY Podcast! As always for the latest content on all things marketing compliance you can head to performline.com/resources. And for the most up-to-date pieces of industry news, events, and content be sure to follow PerformLine on LinkedIn. Thanks again for listening and we’ll see you next time!
