In this episode of COMPLY, we sit down with Leon Hoppe, digital media lead at WebSeeds and founder of KickAds Brand Marketing, to discuss how the intersection of marketing and compliance has evolved over the past two decades. Leon shares how a six-figure demand letter early in his career reshaped his view on compliance—turning what was once an afterthought into a foundational business practice.
In this episode, we discuss:
- Starting compliance early to make compliance part of your marketing culture—not a reaction to a violation.
- Owning your affiliates’ actions because brands are responsible for what partners send on their behalf; visibility and monitoring tools are non-negotiable.
- Leveraging technology wisely by using tools like LashBack, and AI-driven creative testing to detect risks and improve deliverability.
- Staying adaptable because algorithm shifts, privacy updates, and email deliverability changes require constant learning and adjustment.
- Human oversight still matters, even with AI, compliance teams must verify that generated content aligns with legal and ethical standards.
- Think long-term by treating compliance like an insurance policy—protecting brand reputation and ensuring sustainable growth.
Show Notes:
- Connect with Rhonda: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rhonda-mcgill/
- Check out Leon’s Compliance Superhero story: Compliance Superhero: Leon Hoppe
- Subscribe to PerformLine to stay connected to resources and updates: https://lp.performline.com/subscribe-to-performline
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About COMPLY: The Marketing Compliance Podcast
The state of marketing compliance and regulation is evolving faster than ever. On the COMPLY Podcast, we sit down with the biggest names in marketing, compliance, regulations, and innovation as they share their playbooks to help you take your compliance practice to the next level.
Episode Transcript:
Rhonda:
Welcome back to COMPLY, the podcast that dives into the ever-evolving world of regulatory compliance. I am your host, Rhonda McGill, and today it is my pleasure to introduce Leon Hoppe, who oversees digital media at WebSeeds and KickAds Brand Marketing.
Leon:
So, my journey began in 2006, my first introduction was buying and selling domains, and then I started to open the door for doing media buying. And then I started working with affiliates and affiliate networks, then I found myself being pulled into email marketing. The last 10 years I’ve been really focused with email marketing and then also working with some affiliates.
I eventually started Kick Ads Marketing, and so these days I’m just kind of focused on working with clients such as Web Seeds. My goals with them is just to deliver for focusing on, driving revenue tracking, and just really assisting with their infrastructure.
Rhonda:
So you’re using LashBack almost daily it sounds like?
Leon:
A couple days a week for sure.
Rhonda:
Awesome. That’s great. So, let’s dive in a little bit deeper into what you all are doing, especially you! Can you share a little bit about how your role resulted in your journey into the compliance space? Because you’re more on the marketing side, but you are touching compliance quite a bit.
Leon:
Yeah. So, back in 2008 or nine, it sounds like probably 2009, I was managing a pretty successful brand, and I was the affiliate manager. We’re working with a lot of affiliate networks and affiliates, and about 99% of our traffic was coming through email from these affiliates and back then compliance was kind of an afterthought. But that kind of changed. We got a letter in the mail, demand letter for a hundred thousand dollars from a lawyer, stating that we had violated California’s anti-spam, law. And so that kind of gave us a wake-up call and we didn’t realize at the time that, but basically that you’re, as the advertiser are responsible for what your affiliates send on your behalf.
So, if they’re misleading from lines, subject lines, the content they’re sending, that falls on you. After a few months of negotiation, we settled and that kind of prompted us to kind of protect the brand, and then looked for services that can help us protect the brand and that’s actually how we found LashBack.
So that’s, we started using LashBack as soon as that happened. So, by using LashBack, that gave us more visibility to what affiliates were sending. and then when affiliates weren’t abiding by the CAN-Spam laws or, or the cans Spam Act, we were able to shut them down pretty quickly and kind of protect ourselves and protect the brand.
Rhonda:
So what do you like most about what you do? You seem very passionate about all of it. But what do you like the most about what you do?
Leon:
You know, as we get older, I like the creative challenge and also just the problem solving. So, you know, it’s always evolving, the internet and so just trying to stay up to. Stay up to date with things. So, testing out new creatives, seeing what other people are sending, new guidelines are coming out, new algorithm changes all the time with, email marketing. It’s like a puzzle. taking, Gmail and Yahoo for example, their algorithms change, it used to be infrequently. Now it seems to be more frequently. Yahoo just made a huge algorithm change back at the end of March, which has affected the whole industry. There’s a lot of companies that are still struggling right now with Yahoo deliverability. so, you know, for example, not honoring opt optout requests, unsubscribe links, the emails look spammy. They’re using spammy from lines. So, yeah, it’s about being, thinking long term and focusing on compliant long term.
Rhonda:
I like that, and I think it kind of leads into where I’m going next because this is an ever-evolving world and there’s always so many different things that are happening. So, what advice would you give to a team? you’ve been in the game for a long time, so what advice would you give to a team that’s working to build compliance into their marketing program?
Leon:
Great question. I think start early and make compliance part of the culture rather than just an afterthought. I think too often teams just think of compliance as an afterthought, and then until you get hit with some kind of litigation, so instead treat it like a foundation, you’re creative, your list building your data use. That needs to fall under compliance somehow. So, it’s better to do it now than deal with headaches later on.
Rhonda:
Yeah, and that’s true. I think that sometimes compliance is the afterthought, and because I came from the compliance side of the world, I always think about it in terms of, what are the things that we can do to lay that foundation? But definitely marketing is one of those areas where marketing and compliance should always be working hand in hand because they are the ultimate, you know, the beginning and the end for protecting the brand.
Absolutely. So what tools, and we know LashBack, for example, would you say are the most important, and how do you leverage technology and automation to enhance your marketing compliance efforts and maintain some of that agility in this fast-paced environment?
Leon:
Yeah, so obviously we’ve been using LashBack, so that’s been huge for us as far as monitoring creatives, keeping affiliates compliant. on the email side of things, dealing with, verification platforms such as Zero Balance or Bright Verify, make sure your list are very clean. for deliverability, I like to use tools like block apps so, it’s before you even send out the email, you send it to them, they tell you where it’s gonna land, if it’s gonna land in the promo primary, or if there’s, issues with your email with the content, or maybe links are broken. and then also setting up feedback loops. Gmail represents about 50 to 55% of most B2C email lists making sure you’re staying up to date with their compliance and spam traps, feedback loops from Yahoo, removing the unsubscribes. As far as, other trends that you see going on right now is, with Yahoo last week, they changed some things where users, mailboxes were from, one terabyte.
Now it’s down to 20 mega, gigs. And so, you’re seeing a lot of, more issues with mailers with their Yahoo deliverability.
Rhonda:
So, it’s definitely not just one thing. It’s not, it’s not just set it and forget it. It’s always multiple things.
Leon:
Yeah. As far as, technology too, obviously AI is huge. so, you know whether you’re using cloud or Chat GPT. I think from, for advertisers, for mailers, you know, uploading all your email creatives, the top ones, but also uploading your worst ones and letting AI help you write content. So that’s been a, a huge, a huge relief there. If you’re not a copywriter, you can have your ai, just write all the, the email copy for you.
Yeah, AI has definitely taken, taken over a lot. Do you see that? I think it just really depends. I mean, if you’re a copywriter, it’s a huge threat. You know, you no longer need to have, you know, copywriters, sometimes except for the high leverage ones. I know a lot of copywriters that were, threatened by that, but if you’re staying up to date with technology and you’re able to leverage AI in your benefit, I think it’s fine.
Rhonda:
AI is, one of those things that, compliance always has to be a part of it because you’re going to always need the human touch, the human element around it, because a technology can spit out anything, but you got to make sure that it’s compliant, so definitely that’s something I think a lot of folks are hoping that. compliance definitely is taking hold in that world. Let’s see, as we’re looking like five years down the line, what do you envision as the biggest challenge and opportunity in the intersection of marketing and legal compliance for companies like yours? Is that AI, what is it?
Leon:
Yeah, I think it’s, just don’t underestimate how fast the landscape changes, you know, the rules and conditions that we operate even just six months ago have changed. So, it’s, making sure you’re staying up to date, you’re staying webinars, reading blogs, rules and regulations that are coming out. You want to stay proactive and monitoring that, build strong relationships with compliance partners like you guys or Optizmo and just try to stay ahead of the game so if you are able to protect, your email or your company, you’ll have your revenue growth and protection long term.
Rhonda:
For sure.
Leon:
It’s like an insurance policy.
Rhonda:
Exactly. That’s a great way to say it. So doing what you do every day is not for the faint of heart. I always like to ask our guests to share with us. What do you believe is your superpower?
Leon:
I think it’s pattern recognition. I’ve been doing this for 20 years. I’m not just a mailer. I’ve done the affiliate side of things. I’ve worked with a lot of, media buying, I’ve seen a lot of stuff, did credit card processing for a while as well, so I’m able to just kind of see, the deliverability issues, the root cause of things where most people waste time chasing symptoms. I’m able to kind of, lean in and see the pattern, and that kind of tells me exactly what’s happening and then I’m able to take, action quickly.
Rhonda:
I like it. I like it. Yeah, and you know, I think everyone has a superpower, but this, this is the first time I’ve heard that one, that is unique. That is definitely a gift and, we are glad that you are using it and we’re glad that we’re able to help you to make sure it stays compliant. So, thank you so much for that.
So, Leon, in closing, I wanted to also turn the floor over to you to just ask if you had anything else that you would like to share. I always love to talk to people who may be newer into, marketing and newer into compliance, and if you have any words of wisdom, but if not… we’ll start working towards closing out but definitely want to turn the floor over to you.
Leon:
Yeah, I think if you’re new to this, I think just staying up to date reading, subscribe to every blog that has to do with compliance, any kind of newsletter or any podcast, any webinar you can listen to.
I spend probably a couple hours a week listening just up to date on stuff from different parts of different industries just to kind of stay up to date.
Rhonda:
Yeah. No, I appreciate that. And Leon, I just want to thank you so much for sharing your insights and taking the time to speak with me.
I’m just thrilled to announce that you volunteered to do some collaboration with us on an upcoming blog post, which I’m really excited about. So, to our listeners, I’m going to say this is not the last that you’ve heard from Leon. So, stay tuned. You’re going to hear a little bit more, and if you haven’t already done so, be sure that you take a moment to sign up for our content so that you don’t miss out when, Leon and I work on something fancy and drop it for you.
So, with that all being said, Leon, congratulations on being recognized this month as our compliance superhero, and, we look forward to many more years of working with you and your folks over at WebSeeds.
Leon:
Same here. Thank you so much for having me.
Rhonda:
Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of the COMPLY Podcast! As always for the latest content on all things marketing compliance you can head to performline.com/resources. And for the most up-to-date pieces of industry news, events, and content be sure to follow PerformLine on LinkedIn. Thanks again for listening and we’ll see you next time!
